Altadin
5Jan/0911

"My guild won't let me…"

As a guild leader and avid blog reader, I see this all the time. 

It has more forms than a Feral druid:

"My guild won't let me raid on my brother's character."
"My guild won't let me play my Warlock instead of my Paladin."
"My guild won't let me PuG Heroic Obsidian Sanctum."

And my personal favorite (not to mention the one that inspired this particular rant):

"My guild won't let me tank."

First, the idea that your guild "won't let you ______" is absurd.  You pay for your subscription, not your Guild Leader.  You control your characters, your playtime, your actions and your interactions in the game.  Your guild simply does not have the ability to prevent you from doing something that you want to do, nor does it have the power to force you to do anything that you don't want to do against your will. 

What you really mean by "My guild won't let me ______" is "My guild won't let me ______ and still be a member of the guild."

The difference is more than mere semantics.

"My guild won't let me ______" suggests that your guild is some kind of totalitarian state that exerts absolute control over you and your actions. 

If joining a guild automatically e-mailed your password and secret question to the Guild Leader, and gave each of the guild's officers the option to take control of your character and your interface at any time, and disabled the /gquit command line ...  Well then.  You might have a case!

But unless my spam filters are re-directing a whole lot of e-mail from noreply@blizzard.com, it doesn't quite work that way.

Sure, I can ask my members not to PuG heroic raid zones, but I can't actually prevent them from doing so.  I simply don't (and shouldn't) have that kind of power.  The most I can do is penalize them for breaking the rules, either by barring them from future raids or removing them from the guild.

"My guild won't let me ______ and still be a member of the guild," on the other hand, is a fair statement.

Most guilds have rules.  Good guilds publish these rules and make them available, if not publicly, then at least to prospective applicants and current members. 

Generally speaking, when you join a guild, you agree to abide by the guild's rules.  You also agree to be removed from the guild if you break those rules.  If these agreements aren't explicit (and they often are), then they're at least implicit. 

Either way, this doesn't mean that the guild controls you, but that you've entered into an agreement with it: to abide by the guild's rules in exchange for membership and whatever privileges that conveys — from access to /gchat, to help with group quests, to a raid spot and epic loot, depending upon the focus (and relative success) of the guild.

Semantics aside — I said it wasn't "merely" about semantics, not that it wasn't about semantics at all! — there is often a reason for the things your guild won't let you do (and still be a member of the guild).

 

"My guild won't let me raid on my brother's character."

This one came up last night, when our sole tree (one of only five healers in the raid) asked to play his brother's mage instead of his druid, because his brother was called into work but still "needed" gear from several bosses in heroic Naxx. 

I denied the request for two reasons:

1.  First and foremost, we needed the heals!  Allowing the tree in question to play his brother's mage would have forced one of our hybrids to respec (at the guild's cost) or one of our DPS mains to switch over to a healing alt.  I'm not going to force someone into a spec or onto a character they don't want to play to accomodate someone who isn't even in the raid.

2.  The tree is a much more consistent raider than his brother.  It makes more sense from the guild's perspective to gear the druid who seldom misses a raid over the mage who shows up for one in every three.  The guild is not interested in gearing individuals; it gears the raid, so that the entire raid can progress.  There was another mage, two warlocks and a shadow priest in the group who would have made better use of any cloth caster drops anyway. 

 

"My guild won't let me play my Warlock instead of my Paladin."

I read a post over at Greedy Goblin a few weeks ago that is at least partially responsible for this post.  Basically, Gevlon encouraged a friend not only to leave her guild because it "forced" her to play her paladin instead of her warlock, but to steal almost 24K gold from the guild bank to compensate her for the hours she spent raiding on her pally, as well.

I understand why she /gquit.  In her situation, I might have done the same thing — minus the theft, of course. 

What I don't understand is the idea that the guild somehow deserved to be punished for "forcing" her to play her paladin.  Far from being forced, she agreed to level a healer and, in return, recieved help from the guild on the long grind from 1 to 70. 

Ultimately, she raided on her paladin, saw content, took gear ... and, by Gevlon's account, had fun doing it.

Now, ten levels later, because she thinks she would have had more fun playing her 'lock, she feels entitled to 24K gold in bogus opportunity costs and the moral high road? 

Seriously, this has to be the stupidest thing I've read in the Blogosphere to date, and I've read all of Renoobed's Melvin stories ...

 

"My guild won't let me PuG Heroic Obsidian Sanctum."

As easy as Sartharion is, Sartharion + 1, 2 and 3 drakes is still progression.

We attempted Sartharion +1 unsuccessfully in our last two Heroic OS raids.  As long as Malygos remains undefeated, the Sartharion achievements aren't a priority for us, so we gave it three attempts each time — just to assess our progress — before killing Vesperson, downing Sarth in "easy-mode" and moving on for the night. 

Still, that's three more wipes than you're likely to endure in a halfway decent Sartharion -3 PuG, so I suppose I can understand why some guildmembers would prefer to PuG OS early in the week, /roll on "free" loot (i.e., gear with no GP cost attached) and pass on the weekend run. 

I understand it, but I don't like it, and have made it very clear that anyone caught PuGing Heroic OS will be wait-listed from Heroic Naxx — a much longer instance that's harder to PuG successfully.

For the most part, my guildmembers support the decision.  After all, they want to raid too, and can't if a handful of members are saved to a PuG ID.  Still, there's a small minority of players who feel the rule is too restrictive, including a certain Death Knight ...

And that brings me to my last "My guild won't let me ______", and the one that inspired this post in the first place.

 

"My guild won't let me tank."

Shortly before WotLK shipped, my guild's MT announced that he would be making his rogue his new main.  He felt that tanking was "too easy" in the post-3.0.1 world, and wanted to play something more challenging.  Even if rogue DPS was relatively simple to master, he hoped, then the opportunity to compete on the damage meters would at least keep things interesting.

We only had one raiding rogue at the time, and fury warrior who was more than capable of stepping up to tank, although it would have been as fourth tank in seniority rather than first.  (Even without our former MT, we had a solid tank corps consisting of a Feral druid, second Prot warrior and Prot paladin.)

Even though our MT's spot was filled before the change became public knowledge, the moment it did, it seemed that everyone in the guild who had ever had aspirations of tanking spontaneously respecced or rerolled in an attempt to claim his spot.  >.<

I might be exaggerating.  A little.

The problem I'm running into now is that I have more would-be tanks than the raid can possibly support.  I am constantly asking the paladin to respec Holy, the Death Knight to respec Unholy, and the warriors to respec to ... whatever it is warriors do for DPS.  None of them are thrilled about it, and I suspect they'll be even less thrilled when I announce on the guild forum that I'm going to start enforcing Main Tank priority on loot — something I've never had to do before, because in TBC our tanks were such a  close-knit group that they made all of their own loot decisions, largely by consensus, with PR invoked as an occasional tie-breaker.

Now, the junior Prot paladin (who is usually given a choice between raiding as Holy and not raiding at all) is resentful of our Main Tankadin; our Death Knight complains about being asked to respec DPS every other raid (and attempts to organize a Heroic OS PuG week simply so he can MT it ...); and the warrior we had initially tapped to replace our MT after he went rogue has bowed out of the competition and is raiding on his Frostfire mage.  To top it all off, our real tanks are alarmed by the fact that the wannabes are attempting to bid on tank gear ...

If this sounds like a recipe for drama, it is!  

What frustrates me so much is the fact that none of these would-be tanks talked to me about their desire to tank — and the likelihood that they would recieve much-coveted tank spots in the guild raid — before they the invested time, effort and gold into their Frost, Feral or Protection gear.  I would have been happy to explain to them that our tanking spots were filled, and perhaps forestall this "My guild won't let me tank" nonsense. 

Instead, I'm doing it retroactively, and with as much sympathy and support as I can muster (which, frankly, isn't a lot). 

But, really, why would you assume that speccing tank and signing up for raids automatically makes you the MT of an established raiding guild?  Is there something I'm missing here?  Or do I simply have "Pushover" written on across my Undead forehead?

23Dec/080

PuG Loot Rules

One of the disadvantages to blogging from work is that my access to WoW-related sites is restricted by my company's Internet filters.  I can't view gaming websites, including most blogs.  Google's feedreader allows me to keep up on my favorites, but I can't post comments on them if they're hosted on private domains.  (Although not, for some reason, BigRedKitty.  Whatever BRK is doing to keep his site off the corporate radar, can the rest of you kindly do as well?)

Side note: the fact that gaming sites are blocked at work is a minor inconvenience — and by minor inconvenience, I mean major pain in the ass — for a financial analyst specializing in the Hospitality and Gaming industries.  >.<  Not only am I blocked from viewing WoW sites, but I'm also unable to look at anything related to the casinos and resorts I'm supposed to be analyzing.   That's corporate America for you, I guess ...

Anyway, Matticus posted an open-ended question about PuG loot rules this afternoon that I would have liked to comment on.  Since I can't now (and probably won't remember when I get home tonight and start frantically cleaning in preparation for my parents' arrival in 2 days, 3 hours and 54 minutes), I'll just borrow it as inspiration for today's post.

Matticus recently participated in a Naxx 25 PuG with some fairly specific loot rules —

  1. 1 Tier roll for the entire night
  2. 1 Need/1 Greed for Spider and Plague Wing combined
  3. 1 Need/1 Greed for Military and Abomination Wing combined

— and asks:

Have you participated in any heroic raids lately.  How has loot been handled?

The answer to the first question is simple: no.  With the exception of Vault of Archevon, which is impossible to schedule in advance, I don't allow my guildmembers to PuG heroic raids unless they know they won't be able to attend the guild raid that week.  Even then, I ask them to talk to an officer before joining a Naxx 25 or OS 25 PuG — if only to avoid setting the precedent that it's acceptable to PuG progression content if you "think" you can't attend the guild raid, are worried you might be wait-listed, or simply feel you have a better chance at loot via /random roll with a PuG than following EPGP with the guild.

That said, I don't think anyone in my guild would actually prefer a PuG to a guild run.  I have tried very hard to build a community that players want to be a part of and, for the most part, I think I've been successful.  But some of our more casual members (those once- or twice- a month raiders who don't meet our attendance requirements for dedicated spots) might choose to take the opportunity to PuG if it presented itself, especially if they thought they might be wait-listed from the guild raid.  Since we do save a handful of raid spots for our casuals as a matter of principle, we would be hard-pressed to raid if they all started saving themselves to PuG's. 

So, no, I haven't PuG'ed any heroic raids since dinging 80. 

However, as a guild leader, I am occasionally forced to look outside of /g to fill the last few spots in a raid, and am still struggling with how to deal fairly with PuG's when it comes to loot.

As a guild, we use EPGP — a ratio-based system in which players earn Effort Points (EP) for participating in raids and recieve Gear Points (GP) for taking loot.  The ratio of EP to GP determines their priority, or PR, on future drops. 

Although it is possible to add PuG's to our system, it isn't practical.  PuG's won't earn enough EP in a single raid to meet our minimum threshold to bid on loot, and because they aren't guilded, they aren't likely to raid with us again.  This means that if we were to hold PuG's to our rules, they would have virtually no chance of recieving loot.  In other words, they'd be working for nothing.

When we were one of a handful of Horde-side guilds farming Black Temple, a PuG might join our raid for nothing more than the opportunity to see new content.  Now that PuG's are routinely attempting (and in, some cases, clearing) 25-man's, this isn't enough.

Under our current PuG rules, PuG's are invited to /roll against guild members for all main-spec upgrades of the appropriate armor class. 

If the PuG wins the roll, then he or she also wins the item.  'Grats! 

If a guildmember wins the roll, then the item is distributed according to guild rules — not necessarily to the guildmember who won the roll, but to the guildmember with the highest PR at the time.

Most of my raiders hate this rule.  I hate this rule. 

But I think it's fair. 

As stupidly obvious as this sounds, our goal as a raiding guild is to raid as a guild.  If we have to PuG to fill our raid roster, then we've already failed.  We are now indebted to the PuG or PuG's who allow us to raid in spite of this failture. 

In my mind, then, PuG's deserve to be rewarded — or, at least, deserve the potential to be rewarded — for their role in salvaging our raid

If we could do it without them, we would.

If we can't, then they are well and truly needed ... and that makes them as much a part of our team for the night as any guilded raider.

One of my long-time raiders complained (upon losing a T6 roll to a PuG) that it's more lucrative to raid with us as a PuG than as a guildmember.  If a PuG wins a roll for an item, then that item is essentially "free."  But if a guildmember wins it, then he recieves GP, which lowers his priority for future drops. 

I don't necessarily agree.  While it can be painful to see the one drop you've waited three months for  looted to a PuG, it's important to remember that the fact that the PuG is there is what allowed you to see it — and /roll for it — in the first place!  Without the PuG, the raid would  mostly likely would have been canceled.

Of course, the simple solution to not likeing the PuG rules is not to PuG in the first place.  I've told my guildmembers on several occasions that we aren't supposed to like the rule.  The fact that it favors PuG's (or is percieved to favor PuG's) encourages accountability: if you sign up for a raid, you had better be there!  24 other people are counting on you.

The rule also incents  us to recruit appropriately.  A large part of the onus for this is on me: as as the guild leader, it is my responsibility to ensure that I have the right number of raiders — enough to fill raids consistently, but not so many that I am consistently asking would-be raiders to ride the bench. 

Unfortunately, this is easier said than done in a casual guild, with a raid roster that is likely to change from day to day, if not hour to hour — but that's a subject for another post.

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