Hi guys, i just hit your website from wow.com i think. I’m a casual raider. I’m also raid leader, ex-guild master, and officer of my 10man strict guild.

“Loot train to purpleville” is only half the problem. Sadly, people aren’t willing to put any effort into real raiding.

On our progression group, half the people can fill two roles, 2 people have filled 3 roles in a single raid. if a player for a role is missing, or a certain buff would benefit the raid for an encounter, or a kiter is needed, people will hop on an alt if need be, just to get things done (half the raiders have alts and geared VERY closely as well as the mains on our progression group) . Half our main core group can be tank/heals or tank/dps or heal/dps. However we usually raid 8-9 and any other guildie/pug. Since we are still a casual raid 10man strict guild and sometimes RL doesn’t allow for everyone to be online.

Back in Kara we started facing these problems you now face. Back then it was loot train to purpleville. We recruited, and made a second kara group splitting our core raid team. A group would fail, or sometimes both.

When we managed to get enough people for 25mans, the most we managed back then (VERY CASUAL) was gruul and mags.
We never downed a single SSC boss.
But we did ZA. full clears. 45seconds shy of a timed run (with t4 and 2 – 3pieces of badge gear). Everyone wanted in on that.

Everyone wants in on progression group’s raids. Why? Because they raid with people who tried 40 different strats until they found out what worked best for them. But the group tried 40 different ones. Some failed. some worked, even if just barely. But running with a group like this means things will turn out all right and encounters will be beat, usually within 1 or 2 wipes. Sometimes it takes weird tactics like 1 heals or 3 tanks, or 1 tank and 2 heals, or a dps tanking, Kiters, ETC.

But as fate would have it, more people started playing. Friends and family. Now we are deep into ulduar and doing hardmodes and starting on togc. And new 80s, and medium (not so recent 80s, maybe ilvl 200-213 geared) 80s all want to raid with us. Now its breeze me thru hardmodes on the CarryMe Bus to show off my new titles/mounts. (like that time we did a nax10 for the new 80s, none showed up and we did 8man undying…)

So we started a second raid group, with alts of the progression group as backup, but the core of the group to be formed by the new and medium 80s. We did this so the new raiders would understand the hardships of raiding and missing people for certain roles, and wiping. Of 5 raids we have scheduled (to benefit the most of the new and medium 80s), we ended up pugging, with only 1 or 2 of the new guys assisting. This shows a huge lack of commitment. There are enough players to make a second raid group, but they are too lazy to try and find a schedule that works for the most of them, or even organize anything.

Our situation is different, but in essence it is the same. You have enough people for 25man raids and some bench/backup. Commitment means getting a dual spec. And doing some heroics and dailys to get a couple of t9, t8, etc. It also means that the first couple of weeks your group will wipe. A lot. But if people commit things start happening. The group grows more united, and commited to being there and reading and trying new strats to get things done. However it’s always easier to follow others than it is to pave a road for others to follow. If you want it, go for it, work for it. don’t expect others to carry you through or even do all the hard work for ya.

TL;DR:
If you want to be part of a 10man raid on offnights. COMMIT to it. Get a dual spec. Get some gear for the offspec. Fill up those last spots with people who want to get things done. Organize stuff, don’t expect your officers/leaders to do everything for you. And remember its an offnight, OFF-night. If you want 10man hardmode achievements, work for it. It isn’t until one has been raid leader, that one can really understand the burden leadership enthralls. Don’t expect your guild leaders to work for you on offnights.
Isma´s last blog ..Bon voyage

I spoke too soon. This is equally amazing!

Oddly enough, rather than wallow in the self pity that we didn’t have ‘the best’ players in the guild, we just pushed through it. Sure, we spent a month or two failing pretty hard with a constant stream of pugs flowing through, but eventually we found some good, consistant players. Once we finally hit our stride, it was amazing. We ended up being the first group in the guild to get Champion of Ulduar, kill Algalon, and get server first He Feeds on Your Tears and Tribute to Insanity.

Though we missed guild first Glory of the Ulduar raider just because firefighter was a tough fight to learn for a group with no caster dps or shammies.. There really isn’t a phase in that fight where heroism wouldn’t be amazing

Admittedly, the results vary with this kind of stuff, and it helped in a way that there were two other guild groups, everyone just stuck to their group. No one bothered ‘poaching’ because there were literally no spares, and well.. its not fun to be picked last. When there are 20 spots open and 25 raiders and you’re one of the guys left out, well.. you just don’t feel any particular sense of obligation to the raids that ditched you.

Anyways, rambling a bit. Bottom line: Make Lemonade. Then splash it in the eyes of those who wronged you.