I wish I couldn’t care less.
Matticus recently had a guildmember depart for a more hardcore raiding guild. By and large, he was fine with it — even supportive. He just wished the guy had talked to him before leaving rather than after, and perhaps finished the lockout period instead of bailing in the middle of it.
While I don't necessarily agree with Matt's observation that he "should have" been angry (a psychology major, I don't believe there's any such thing as "should have" when it comes to feelings; they simply are or they aren't), I am surprised by some of the comments he has received. A couple of people — including well-respected members of the community (read: not trolls!) — have told him point blank that it was his fault that the former guildie didn't approach him. Clearly, Matt should have fostered a more open, communicative environment ...
Um, excuse me for interrupting the self-righteous diatribe: but how the hell do you know what kind of guild culture Matticus and his officers have created (or failed to create)? Do you play with Conquest? Have you listened in on one of Matt's raids or polled his members for their opinions on his leadership skills (or, as you assume, lack thereof)?
Maybe you're right, and Matt is a piss-poor guild leader whose members are right to leave (in the middle of the raid week, with no advance notice or even the courtesy of a post mortem tell).
Or maybe the guy was just a dick.
* * *
Last night, I found myself in a similar situation. The guildmember who threatened to quit two and half weeks ago finally did, and although "L." isn't a dick — he's actually a pretty nice guy — he certainly exhibited some dickish behavior on his way out.
While the too easy/too hard debate rages on, only the most optimistic of gnomes seems to find the raid-game "just right." The rest of us have been struggling: either to fill raids as our members become increasingly bored with the same repetitive content, or to break into raiding in the first place when no one bothers with the entry level zones. On Black Dragonflight, several top level guilds have failed — felled not by hardmodes, but by simple ennui — as have countless start-ups.
For about a month, Surreality was failing too. We were consistently canceling two out of three weekly raids, and those members who wanted to progress through hardmode content were thwarted by those who simply didn't care.
Then, a couple of things happened.
First, I kicked recruitment into overdrive, using the official forums to lure potential raiders cross-server. (Hi Val. *wave*)
Second, two major Horde guilds failed, which led to an fortuitous (for us!) influx of new recruits — giving us not only the numbers we needed to start hardmodes in earnest, but creating competition for raid spots that many of our members had come to take for granted (and couldn't always be counted on to fill). We've seen a considerable step up in interest, attendance and performance as a result. In the space of two weeks, we went from 23-manning Trial of the Crusader once a week to making significant progress in Trial of the Grand Crusader. We even broke into the server's Top 10 for the first time in our existence.
For the last two weeks, our members have been interested, engaged and enthused. Raids are lively again, with everyone from new initiates to seasoned vets offering input and suggestions for strategy tweaks. Even our 10-mans are back in business, with a first round of Rusted Proto-Drakes hatched and many more to come. (I'm currently working on an extended Uld 10 schedule that will open up hardmodes to members who haven't had a chance to see them yet — without leaning on those who never want to see them again. It's even harder than it sounds, but I'm determined to make it work. Somehow.)
... So why now? Why wait until everything is going right to /gquit?
I knew from a previous conversation that L. had been offered a trial with a hardcore guild, recently formed from the remnants of several decently progressed — but largely stagnant — raiding guilds. "SRP" (which stands either for Smoke Ring Productions or Stupid Retarded People, depending upon who you ask) is a typical FotM guild. You know the type, I'm sure: the fourth or fifth reiteration of an old and somewhat controversial name, recreated by and for players who are united in the pursuit of purples but have no deeper or more lasting ties than that. I predict that SRP will enjoy a meteoric rise and then implode as soon as the novelty of being the talk of Trade Chat wears off and its members realize they've been guilded together before and actually hate each other.
So, no, it doesn't sound like a great offer to me — but then, I don't raid for epics or even progression. I raid to play with my friends, so I can't imagine an end-game without Surreality and her odd ensemble cast. Perhaps this is naive of me, but I truly believe that it's the strength of our community that saw us through the worst of the "summer slump" and ultimately allowed us to rebuild.
L. obviously doesn't share my opinion, and that's fine. As Matticus points out, everyone is motivated by different things, and there's nothing inherently wrong with looking for a more compatible experience. For his part, L. was certain that SRP's offer represented an opportunity: a "new adventure," as he phrased it on our message boards.
We talked long into the night the first time this came up, discussing the pro's and con's, and L. eventually decided to give Surreality a month long "trial." "You have one month to recruit more raiders," he concluded at the end of our conversation. "They'll either convince me to stay, or they'll replace me."
Not surprisingly, my officers were a little (okay, more than a little) annoyed by what they perceived as an ultimatum — especially since it came from someone we had historically found to be a little ... unreliable?
With all due respect to L., he does have an unfortunate tendency to /afk through raid content — including our entire first Archimonde kill and multiple bosses in Trial of the Crusader (although completely unattended, his pet once managed 700 DPS on its own on 10-man Jaraxxus!) — and often struggles to maintain a consistent Internet connection. This week, he missed two of our three weekly raids: one because he was late (albeit for perfectly understandable reasons), and one because he disconnected so often that he ended up costing us attempts on the heroic Twin Valks and had to be subbed out.
An unstable Internet connection and flakey attendance aren't ideal for a raider in any guild, but — true to our casual-friendly roots — they are things we're willing to work around. To a point. L.'s veteran status (and the fact that I have always believed his heart to be in the right place, even when his head isn't anywhere at all) has been his Get Out Of Jail Free card. Truth be told, I've taken a bit of flak about it from my officers. But I still view Surreality as my baby and am determined to preserve our "fun and friendship first; progression second" philosphy towards raiding, even if the gap between first and second has narrowed considerably over the years.
Ironically, the same credo that has kept L. in the guild as a core raider has become his reason for leaving. "I guess my desire for progression finally outstripped the guild's," he told Keaton last night. Oh, you mean the desire for progression that leads you to /afk randomly throughout progression raids? (Which is the main reason you're seldom our first choice for a 10-man, by the way. >.<)
I think our melee officer said it best: "Are. you. fucking. kidding. me.?"
Be more condescending. Please.
... Yes, I'm a little upset. Not because he left, per se, but because ever since he recieved the competing offer, his ego has been out of control. It became increasingly obvious after our talk that he no longer wanted to be a part of Surreality. Literally overnight, he went from being optimistic and generally constructive in raids to critical and overbearing — harping on other people's failures while largely ignoring his own. I received so many complaints that I finally resolved to ask him to leave the guild, since it was clear that he resented his choice to stay and was taking the resulting frustration out on us. I suppose I should be relieved that he spared me that particular confrontation ... but I'm mostly just annoyed.
Sometimes, I wish I had Matt's emotional distance. Matt writes that he couldn't care less; that he keeps his members at arms' length and considers no one irreplaceable. Me, I care too much. I feel personally responsible for everyone's enjoyment of the guild and game; on more than one occasion, I have made myself literally sick stressing over the raid roster or an initiate we had to turn away or a veteran who had somehow fallen behind and needed to be demoted or benched.
At the end of the day, I want everyone to love Surreality as much as I do, and am genuinely disappointed and even a little hurt when it turns out that they don't. But this? This was even worse, because — adding insult to injury — the player who left did so in search of a "hardcore" experience he certainly couldn't deliver in-house. His condescension was completely unwarranted and — in my estimation, at least — out-of-character (although no one else seems particularly surprised, so maybe that part's just me).
I wish I was a big enough person to wish him well, but I'm not.
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October 27th, 2009 - 22:42
To be honest, I don’t know much about the situation aside from this post, but I was also quite surprised to see that post on the forums. It does seem quite contradictory, but I can’t say much, im not so dependable either
October 28th, 2009 - 04:44
I’ve found that my perception of a former guild member changes drastically based on the manner in which they leave. We had two veteran raiders leave the the guild recently.
One was a slightly caustic Warlock who decided he wanted to pursue a 25 man core guild. He approached me when he decided this, again when he apped, again when he was accepted, and finally right before he left. He offered to continue to come to raids, but accept no loot, if that was what I thought was best for the time being. When he left, he got kind of a mixed review from the guild at large, mostly due to his critical personality rubbing some people the wrong way. I however, wished him the best, and he still comes and hangs out with us on non raiding days.
The second was an eccentric holy paladin. He was well liked in the guild, and had excellent raid attendance. He showed up for our Wednesday night Ulduar 25 run, and won a couple of pieces of spellpower plate. At 4 AM the next morning, he gquit without a word to me to join another guild. Several guild members expressed their regret at him leaving, and wished him well. However, when he went to one of the officers and asked if he could come to our ToC 25 on friday because his new guild had already run it, I felt insulted, and put a stop to any chances of that happening.
The difference between the two was that the Warlock made his desires clear to me, and offered to leave in whatever manner I saw fit. The Paladin simply took whatever he could grab and bolted. And regardless of how well liked he was, I just can’t bring myself to look at him as a trustworthy human being again because of the manner of his exit.
But in the end, there were two, seperate reactions. There was the part of me that was their friend, and that was were the indignation and acceptance came from. The second reaction was the part of me that was their GM and Raid Leader, and the reaction between the two was the exact same in this case. “Ok, we need a new Warlock/Holy Pally.”
I can see the same reactions in you. There was the part of you who was emotionally invested, not in the character, but in the player. But at the same time, you’re taking stock of the situation, quantifying exactly what his contributions were, and taking action based on that evaluation. You’re doing the same thing Matt did. You said that you wished you were big enough to wish him well. One thing I noticed was that Matt didn’t explicitly wish his departing raider well, he just said that he didn’t care if he left.
The Renaissance Man´s last blog ..The Fundamentals of Tanking: Perception in Ulduar
October 28th, 2009 - 08:20
I’m sorry. The internet dickwad theory keeps getting proven. You’ve had some pretty rough luck with some recruits over the past few weeks. =
I really do see where you’re coming from with the emotional investment in the guild. There are several folks that run the guild I’m a part of that aren’t the guild leader. In my ever so humble opinion, the guild leader is kind of a tool. He doesn’t lead raids, he doesn’t come to them, and doesn’t schedule anything. He rarely talks in guild chat, and when he does it’s always very much not in tune with anything else that’s going on. However, the people that actually run things seem to have invested a very large amount of time into making sure that people can and will run content, and more importantly have fun.
If I had my druthers? I’d prefer your style of leadership to his. I could talk to you, but with the way this guy does things… he’s impossible to approach because he never does anything with the rest of us. It’s very strange to me. Sure, there are mitigating circumstances (he and his wife just had their first child a month or two ago), but that doesn’t make it any easier on the rest of us. Especially when it feels like he wants to hold onto the leadership role.
So, I think you’re doing things in a way that’s better for others and more open. I don’t know Matt’s situation and can’t comment there, but I do think you have a right to be pissed that this guy tried to leverage an offer from a competing guild into something. It’s shitty. It’s like that dude at work that gets drunk and meets the head of some other competing firm in town and solicits a drunken interview… then tries to use that at work to get more pay. Ok, that may be a gross over exaggeration, but it’s not something I would do.
So, I think you’re handling it well, and I hope you replace him with someone that doesn’t fall prey to internet dickwad theory.
lordofthefries´s last blog ..lordofthefries: @elleiras good for you for resisting temptation. Someone finally got the 25 man algalon kill on our server last night
October 28th, 2009 - 08:56
I hesitated at posting this because I know “L.” occasionally reads my blog and I didn’t want him to see himself crucified. But at the end of the day, my blog is my catharisis; if I didn’t have it, I’d probably be even more unpleasant to deal with on a daily basis than I already am. (Anyone who thinks I’m open and easy-going should see /officer chat, lol.)
The thing is, he isn’t a dick. He’s actually a really nice guy who got a competing offer from an up-and-coming guild and let it go straight to his head. Instead of remembering all of those times that we waited patiently for him to come back from /afk — or didn’t, and either undermanned content while he sat in the corner or subbed someone else in to replace him (but still shuffled our raid roster around to let him back in for the one boss that he still needed!) — he suddenly sees himself as better than the rest of us because SRP wants him. (Well, they want several other of my raiders, too, but the response in /g has been “lolsrp v22.0.” :p)
I guess he kind of turned into a dick at the end — but because he talked to me I at least knew where he was coming from. The rest of the guild didn’t, so when I defended his behavior in the officer channels I literally sparked a fight, including a pretty significant one with my fiance. It sucks to go to bat for someone like that and get totally burned.
Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. You’re overestimating my leadership ability, but I can’t say I don’t appreciate it.
And I do understand where you’re coming from with your GM, too. Some people have a really hard time letting go of things they’re invested in, even after they no longer have the time or motivation for them. That certainly seems like the case with him. It would be best for everyone if he stepped down — but good luck making him see that!
My original Co-GM was the same way. He burnt out on guild leadership before we even hit SSC and transferred his main off-server, but tried to retain his Co-GM title on a level 40 alt. He was utterly shocked when I vetoed that move and demoted all of his characters … but, really, come on. >.< Being a leader in any organization is a responsibility, not a reward. It astounds me how many people don’t get that.
October 28th, 2009 - 10:20
As always, there are many sides to the same story, and this whole experience has taught me, among many other things, how information deprecates as it passes by word of mouth.
Right now, I am just thankful that you’ve chosen to show me your side of the story. We can go over the misquotes and whatever discrepancies after things have settled down without being emotionally involved.
For what it’s worth, I’ve lost a lot of sleep over the past 2 nights because I know I’ve let you down. Maybe it doesn’t mean anything, but I want you to know that I still care.
October 28th, 2009 - 10:33
I can step back from calling him an internet dickwad, then (Especially since he decided to comment on this entry). I may think it’s a poor way to do things, but no one’s perfect.
Interpersonal relationships are hard to manage, especially when you can’t call the person or drive over and visit with them to talk through your difficulties. That’s what the majority of the guild management does where I am. They either live with one another or are within driving distance. So the fact that the leader doesn’t do anything means that they all can. So, the people with the emotional investment do end up manning up and making things happen that work out for the betterment of those of us willing and able to run content.
Ego’s make an ass out of all of us at one time or another, but on the scale of things… it could have been worse. He did talk to you, he was there when necessary, and those things count. There’s a lot of perception that goes into this (which I think you mentioned), and people perceive things in strange ways. I hope that everyone involved can work through this to come to an understanding.
L., I don’t know you and I disagree with how you did this, but I’m not going to step up and pass judgement on you. That sure as hell isn’t my place. You’ve obviously thought about a lot of what happened, and that’s more than most people do (and one thing dickwad’s don’t). So, I hope things work out, and even though I don’t know you, I wish you all the best in your future endeavors.
lordofthefries´s last blog ..lordofthefries: @elleiras good for you for resisting temptation. Someone finally got the 25 man algalon kill on our server last night
October 28th, 2009 - 09:28
It gets really old and tired when someone decides they are better than their current circumstances. It’s especially frustrating when they are someone that has been carried as often as not and you really counted them as a friend, so you looked past a lot of the actual behavior.
The “nice tag” is something you get with personal interactions with someone, but behavior sometimes reflects a different side that shows they hold you in contempt or some other state of “not-so-awesome”. Sometimes that initial “nice tag” you have applied to someone obscures your view of reality. And maybe he is a nice person, but his actions were not nice.
Trying to keep a guild pointed in a direction and satisfy enough of everyone’s desires is challenging. I definitely understand the feeling of accountability even when it is out of your control. You can try to take responsibility for everything, but usually, you just make yourself tired and crazy for awhile. I have to break out my special jacket every so often.
November 3rd, 2009 - 11:47
I am very familiar with that jacket!
October 29th, 2009 - 03:56
I’ve been reading your blog for quite a while now and you seem like a thoughtfull and competent person, and what is most important – a friend. If you ever find yourself in need of a feral/feral I would think hard on changing server, faction and race…oh wait, you’re US, I’m EU
. Keep on the great work.
edit:
quote: “Literally overnight, he went from being optimistic and generally constructive in raids to critical and overbearing — harping on other people’s failures while largely ignoring his own.”
This is the oldest trick in the book, it’s a psychological gimmick really – to make your choice “the right one” you need to put down all the alternatives as “bad choices” (in this case, staying in Surreality) to cope with what you chose.
November 3rd, 2009 - 11:47
Just wanted to offer a belated but heartfelt thank you for the kind words. I’ve avoided coming back to this post because the feelings are still raw, but they were (and are!) appreciated. <3
November 2nd, 2009 - 20:15
“(although completely unattended, his pet once managed 700 DPS on its own on 10-man Jaraxxus!) ”
Cause Drace rocks!! Even when I’m not playing the game anymore I can pwn
.
November 3rd, 2009 - 06:53
I’m not sure how to break this to you, Badsword, but … it was actually Peng …
Elleiras´s last blog ..Not it!
November 3rd, 2009 - 11:44
Noooooooooooooooo you lie!!! =(