Comments on: L2wipe: A Casual Raider’s Guide to Hardcore Wiping

By: Troutwort

Troutwort — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:53:49 +0000

This is the best section “If your raid leader doesn’t call for the wipe, don’t wipe.”

Those examples you gave are exactly what makes it all work, and how you tell great players from the average ones. Those moments are the best though, those clutch saves are the memories you never forget. My priest has downed a few bosses solo or with only the tank left and I’ll never forget those moments. I’ve had people say to me before, “A great healer knows when to switch to DPS to win the fight.”

Good times and great post!

By: Baelor

Baelor — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:51:48 +0000

Ulduar has certainly got me used to wiping again.
1 Yogg kill does not make for easy repeats.

Great post.

By: Matticus

Matticus — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:26:55 +0000

I tell the players that decide to leave us that they’re free to go at anytime with no hard feelings. Because I know they’re not skilled enough to get into the higher end guilds and I know they won’t be satisfied with the lower end raiding guilds. They end up coming back as soon as they realize this and how easy they have it.

By: Knife

Knife — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 19:10:58 +0000

I loved this post.

Blizz is trying to not make the same “mistakes” again. The problem is, their old mistakes weren’t mistakes.

Case and point- BC- when they removed attunement from Kara, Kara was easymode once you got into it (a month? two? maybe?). From Kara, you jumped to Gruul/Mags, two 25s that were ridiculously different from anything in Kara. Then you have the ABSURD difficulty jump from Kara -> SSC/TK. You can’t compare Prince/Bane to Vashj/KT.

The bandaid was ZA. The first 2-4 bosses in ZA filled in enough gear to guide you to T5 content. Blizz doesn’t want to have to use a bandaid again (the only problem is, ZA was an AWESOME instance and anyone who didn’t think so is wrong).

Soooo they made Nax easy. Nax is Kara minus Opera, Prince and Bane. That’s why people complained (that and the fact that it was exactly the same instance from before…). Ulduar isn’t meant to be super-hard. It’s not meant to be KT/Vashj. They dont’ want to bandage their game again. Ulduar is meant to be Opera, Prince, Bane, Gruul, Mags and the first X bosses in T5 instances.

Once people realize- oh crap. I used to wipe on Gruul. A lot. Oh and Bane…prince…mags…they’ll become a lot more comfy wiping on Mimiron (especially considering he’s what…the 13th freaking boss in the instance?).

Checkout wow-heroes. Despite the fact that it’s often ridiculously wrong with it’s ratings, look where Ulduar is one the continuum of WotLK. Dead center. Looks to me like there’s going to be more, better instances in WotLK then there were in BC…

By: Lewis

Lewis — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:06:48 +0000

Oh, and something Spinks brought up…I hate when a further-progressed raid looks at one that’s just starting out and fighting their way through, say, Razorscale, and starts saying “lol, noobs.” No, WoW raiding isn’t rocket surgery, but it still takes time and effort to learn the fights and execute a strategy. Starting out doesn’t make you “terribad.” Not learning as you gain more experience and making the same mistakes over and over and over again, now that might.

By: Lewis

Lewis — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:04:36 +0000

Ulduar isn’t some new and cosmic level of “zomghard.” If anything, it’s still easier than some BC content even though all the numbers flying around have an extra zero behind them. It took our raid three raids in four weeks (one cancelled due to lack of attendance) with about 12-14 attempts total before we finally dropped Auriaya on 25 last night–with no deaths, no less. It took us considerably longer than that to get our first kill on Al’ar in Tempest Keep, not to mention Vashj or Kael’thas (who we never did get despite almost two months of trying, until after 3.0 came out).

Raiding can be tough but the rewards are worth it. Hey, I don’t like eating 60-100g+ repair bills every raid night as an offtank, but it comes with the territory, and it’s not like I can’t get that money back in about an hour doing dailies.

By: spinks

spinks — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 04:58:04 +0000

Great post.

“others are new to the endgame and may not realize that wiping over and over again on a new boss isn’t proof that they and their guild or PuG are “terribad”; on the contrary, it’s all part and parcel of the experience.”

I think this is right on the money. People read on forums or EJ or wherever that if they’re wiping on normal bosses, they must be ‘terribad’.

It’s a shame. And I agree totally, raiding for me is all about teamwork, going in with a friendly group you know and working at it, through all the wipes, until you get that brilliant moment when suddenly everything goes right and you get a first kill.

But, even though I’m happy where I am, I get a pang when I realise I may never see a 25 man Yogg Saron kill. So I do understand why people get frustrated eventually (although I do think 2 weeks was a bit impatient ).

By: Darraxus

Darraxus — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 00:18:30 +0000

Great post. My guild is also beating its head on Mimiron atm. People have gotten impatient with Naxx easy mode raids and want it all NOW. I remember taking close to a month or more Moroes, Aran, Gruul, and Morogrim during BC. We didnt have a bunch of people fly ship. People manned up. Raiding got softer.

By: The Renaissance Man

The Renaissance Man — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 00:17:14 +0000

We once took down thorim with the final blows being delivered by two resto druids and a battle rezzed protection paladin.

We wiped 62 times on ten man mimiron before getting lucky enough to not have the tank lose the hitbox joust of phase 4 laser barrages.

We once had to abandon a naxx25 because a resto druid had the temerity to not die on thaddeus when a wipe was caused. The ensuing bug locked the raid in combat, and set Fuegan and Stalaag roaming free, nuking the raid even though we were attempting to run the plauge wing.

In short, this post is right on the money.

By: Abi

Abi — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:36:28 +0000

Our guild is still at a brick wall with Mirimon in Ulduar-10 and Hodir in Ulduar-25 but everyone is starting to understand the fights a lot more now. My favorite part of learning a new fight is when something bad happens that turns in to not only something good but a total learning experience or strategy change.

Our guilds MT is a Warrior who kept dropping like he wore cloth as soon as Frozen Blows started and on one of our many many attemps a DK (who is normally a tank but specced for DPS) picked him up and held him through frozen blows causing us to rethink our tanking choice for this fight. It irritated the Warrior tank a bit but we’ve since swapped to the DK tank and run in to very little trouble keeping him alive.. now it’s just beating the enrage timer and getting ALL dps used to utilizing the buffs given by the NPCs and not failing at missing the snow mounds.

You also addressed my #1 pet peeve with raiding.. when the leader calls for a wipe and people still try to keep themselves alive. I don’t know if it’s to pad their DPS numbers or what, but it’s annoying. If you total the time it took these people to die, we could have gotten another attempt it. It’s also pretty awesome (/end sarcasm) when you zone back in after a wipe to see yourself go in combat because of people using invisibility, feign death, etc., in the worst possible spots only to aggro the boss when the effect ends.

Overall, I completely agree that wiping is all part of the learning process and that patience is a virtue. If you are easily aggrivated, have zero tolerance for mistakes and can’t afford the repairs/reagents/buffs/etc.., it’s time to find something else to do with your time.

-Abi
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